The ocean’s rising, do you give a shit? Written, produced, edited and hosted by the Undeniable, Elijah “Lilo” Miller, a grade 12 student in Toronto, this piece asks interviewees, the audience and the podcast's creator to think critically about what we’ve all been avoiding: how are we dealing with climate change, and do we even care when it feels so overwhelming?
The ocean’s rising, do you give a shit? Written, produced, edited and hosted by the Undeniable, Elijah “Lilo” Miller, a grade 12 student in Toronto, this piece asks interviewees, the audience and the podcast's creator to think critically about what we’ve all been avoiding: how are we dealing with climate change, and do we even care when it feels so overwhelming?
Elijah interviews fellow students, teachers, and a therapist to hear their perspectives on climate, why it's so darn hard to make change, and who's responsible for it anyway?
Elijah created this piece through a co-op placement with the Hart House Podcasting team through Support, Engage, Experience U of T which is a collaborative access program between U of T and the Toronto District School Board.
Thank you to our guests, Adrian, Isa, Ms. Fernandez, Mr. Kennedy, Ms. Sabetti, and Terry Gardiner.
Music by Lilo, aka Elijah Miller @devilish_wonderkid
Edited by Elijah Miller, with support from Shaela McCracken
Thanks to Danielle DiNunzio and Day Milman at Hart House, and SEE U of T https://wdw.utoronto.ca/seeuoft
Day Hi there, and welcome to Stories from the Hart, coming to you from Dish with One Spoon territory. My name is Day, and I work with the Hart House Podcasting team, mostly behind the scense, producing and supporting our student-led podcasts. Today’s show features a piece created by Elijah Miller, a grade 12 student who participated in SEE U of T, a collaborative access program between the Toronto District School Board and the University of Toronto. As part of this program, high school students take classes at U of T, and also participate in a co-op placement. Elijah chose to work with the Hart House Podcasting program for his co-op and this is what he produced. I was lucky enough to be be Elijah’s placement supervisor, along with Danielle DiNunzio. I hope you enjoy Elijah’s piece.
Elijah M Our generation is more aware of climate change than any before us and it shows. We've had walkouts, protests and social media campaigns. All this work has made the global climate, a regularly newsworthy issue, and made world leaders consider how to move forward. At least that's how it feels on my bubble. Hi, I'm Elijah Miller. I'm a grade 12 student doing a co-op at U of T Hart House. And I'm definitely more anxious than your average person. I think about everything way too much. And only when it isn't necessary. I set out on this podcast journey with the goal of seeing how your average person feels about the state of the world, how to move forward, and who has the responsibility of trying to save the world? Now I start you off with a question, listener. The oceans are rising, do you give a shit?
First, let's see what our hopeful youth think of dealing with climate change, because the children are our future. And boy, does the future have some things to say, I sat down with two of my fellow students to talk about climate change and how we can take steps to change it. And here's a bit of what they said. And in between, you're going to hear a bit from my teachers in the room.
Elijah M Welcome to Elijah's podcast interview with the students.
Elijah M With me today, I have
Adrian I'm Adrian, hello. Nice to meet you. Um, I like to think of myself as a very interesting person. And I would appear that Elijah also thinks of me as a very interesting person. So that is why I'm here today. And on the other end of the interesting scale, we have my bestie, my best friend ever.
Isa Hi, most people call me Isa
Elijah M What drastic change, no matter how improbable, would you apply to change our fate?
Adrian This is what I'm what I was about to say is that [all talking at once]
Isa virtually anything
Adrian The government already, I think, has way too much control. Most countries, governments have way too much control. But without their control, we will not, again, and this is what I was talking about with like the limiting how many children are born and like the overgrowing population, and so on so forth. You can't really control people that much. like people don't want to be controlled. And this is the problem we have now with, like, how governments control most things is that nobody's happy about it, nobody likes it. But without a certain degree of control, we will never improve from this. But I also think that the people currently in control should not be in control. And we should have better people in control.
Isa I am all for legislation, legislating lifestyle changes personally. Like I put a terrified me go make people drive less go raise those taxes to like sky high rates for rich people. I'm all for that. And I know this issue of the business issues of keeping business in Canada, and there's it's a lot more complicated than that in real life. But like, in theory, I'm all for that. In terms of personal changes. I mean, like, if me doing anything would single handedly stop climate change? I'll do it. If I could singlehandedly, I would do literally anything.
Adrian Well, I would say most things
Elijah M Well, that leads into my next question. Do you think individual change is necessary? Or do you think it's more on a government structural level?
Adrian Ah, I think it's more on a structural level.
Isa But I think both are necessary.
Adrian I think that asking, say if we got like the whole school, for example, to stop driving to school, the whole school!
Isa I think ultimatums are the problem, though and lifestyle changes.
Adrian But I think that like even then...
Elijah M Wait, what do you mean?
Isa Like saying, Okay, I'm never gonna eat another animal product, or I'm never gonna drive again, no one at the school is allowed to drive. Like it has to fit. Yes, it should be uncomfortable. I believe that I think given this thing, it's not going to be easy, but it still has to be realistic. [all talking at once]
even if I eat meat twice a week instead of five times a week or whatever your normal proportions are.
Adrian Respectfully, the point I am trying to make is that if... if we got everyone at the school, and their parents, just stopped driving, if, and I'm not saying that's realistic, and I'm not saying that's sustainable, because it's not, but if we did, what really is going to change? We're not really going to do a lot.
Isa A) driving is not... everyone thinks driving is like the end of the world. And it's not,
Adrian it's not
Isa like you what you eat and your house are way bigger.
Adrian Yeah.
Isa As part of your personal footprint, but I agree that government, more of it should be corporate, that is more important than personal change. I think they are both important.
Adrian I think if we, as average people, just kind of kept doing what we're doing, but the government made like a whole lot of changes with like, where they source their energy, again, what they subsidize for food,
Isa But that would be uncomfortable
Adrian it would impact our lifestyle
Isa If all of a sudden, all of a sudden, a bottle of milk is 10 bucks, more people are going to drink other milk products, because that's very expensive.
Adrian What I'm trying to say is that I really don't think that a lot of the impact is being made by individual average people. And I think a bigger part of the impact is being made by people who have too much money, people who are in charge and should not be in charge. And just like Generally, those who are making the decisions to source things unethically. Not us, it's them.
Isa I agree that a bigger part of the impact is that. I don't think it's all the impact. I don't think we're at a point where we can afford to just ignore the personal aspects.
Adrian No, I agree. But I think that if they made the choices first, if they made the changes first, and we just followed that.
Isa I think the point is that we don't have time for that. It has to all happen at once.
Adrian That's not realistic.
Elijah M It's not but, it's like you got to start...
Adrian If they do it first, also on a psychological level, if the people in power, say we need to change things, now we are changing this, we are changing this, then I think more people would listen. And more people would, as you say, make realistic changes to their lifestyle.
Mr. Kennedy I mean your generation will be in power eventually.
Miss Fernandez Yes, very soon, your generation...
Mr. Kennedy Yeah. So if we can find some hope here, if there's enough of you who are sick of the system. And as you gain some power, you could dismantle it, and re-build it to how you think will work.
Elijah M We will be in power one day, though it may feel like change happens now, or it's over. There are people betting on us to do our best when we get a real chance. They're our parents, our teachers, our family. Why does change, have to wait for us?
Elijah M Welcome to Eli's teacher interview of the podcast. I said interviews instead of half.... with our special guests,
Miss Fernandez Miss Fernandez
Elijah M and
Mr. Kennedy Mr. Kennedy.
Elijah M Whoooo, alright. I'm gonna ask you, some simple, simple questions. There's no right answer to any of these as well as right as you can feel them, but I don't care about the right answer,
Mr. Kennedy are there wrong answers?
Elijah M No...
Miss Fernandez Is there ever a wrong answer?
Elijah M Why do you think your average person isn't making crazy drastic changes? To do anything they can?
Mr. Kennedy Because it's a pain in the ass? Like,
Miss Fernandez yeah, it's difficult to actually make the changes you need to make. It is difficult, and I know it, like I'm one person that I drive to work every day. And sure my v4 engine isn't using as much gas but still, you know, there is no reason why I shouldn't be taking public transport other than the fact that I don't want to spend an hour plus on public transport. You know, there's a there's a change, you know, industrial farming, you know, more of us should not be eating meat... and....
Mr. Kennedy yeah, it's hard to change, when it's going to make your life more difficult. Like you can take for buses here to court or not. And there's also that just believe that well, it's somebody else's issue, somebody else's taking care of this, or it's the government's fault or this so or I just my little actions won't make a difference. You start thinking that way. And the thing of climate change, it's, it's complex, right? It's a complex system that is difficult to understand, too. And we get bombarded with misinformation to also so we get confused about it and what's, what's the narrative in the media and all that stuff. So it's a lot easier to stop thinking about that. Go to our Things that escape, right? Our phones and our social medias and spend our time there. So we're caught in that web,
Elijah M But you care about the people in the future, they're screaming about you. Why don't you help out?
Adrian What are y'all gonna do? What am I gonna do?
Isa What every other generation has said, that's why we're all screwed.
Adrian But what am I going to do? Every other generation did have their people in charge, and there are people in power, who may have been again, like me. And everyone's like, there's a problem for the future people. And they're like, I don't care. But like, I'm not in a position of power
Isa What about youth activists who also are not in positions of power?
Adrian Youth activist are in positions of power, just being an activist in of yourself. Yeah, they fought for that power. But being an activist in of itself, and having a platform and a voice is having power.
Isa They weren't born with that, any of them,
Adrian No, they worked for it. Yeah, I don't have the energy for that.
Terry Gardiner There are some situations where big impact is going to be required. With an issue like climate change, we'll just go out and plant a tree, that's gonna make some impact. But if we have a government that supports logging and sends companies out to cut all those trees down, that will mitigate the impact. So it's about looking at the big picture and the small picture and how the different pieces fit together.
Elijah M Climate change being a combined effort, for better or for worse was a sentiment echoed through all my interviews in different ways. And the thought of having to put all your hope in someone else is simultaneously amazing, and terrifying. Because if it goes sideways, it's not my fault. And I'm not to blame. But also, if the people who can do anything aren't doing enough, I don't have the power to change anything. Alrght, let's get started.
Elijah M This is Eli's therapist half of the interview with our special guest... introduce yourself...
Terry Gardiner So my name is Terry Gardiner, and I am an early childhood educator and a social worker.
Elijah M So you know a lot about the mind and stuff.
Terry Gardiner Well, I know some things about the mind. I'm constantly learning more about the mind. I've been fortunate to work with young children and with teenagers and adults and families and communities. So I learned with and from folks, when we engage in conversation, and you know, I've done little bit of studying, a little bit of reading and I'm open to learning ongoing.
Elijah M I think we put it in a bubble, and we throw it in the back of our mind.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah.
Elijah M Because inside the bubble is fire. It's scary.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah.
Elijah M So we have to keep the bubble around, because it's very important. But popping the bubble, only makes us sad and angry. So we try and leave it as much as possible, maybe push the bubble around because it's fun.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah.
Miss Fernandez So I think that's actually a great comparison. Because I think that's how most people think of it. Yeah. But do you think, but then it comes down to the fact that because everybody is put this idea of climate change in this bubble and are thinking about it anymore. Without actively thinking about it, you're not going to be able to get out of change. And without active change. Nothing's ever you know, you've created this, you've created this weird loophole where every generation is doing the exact same thing.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah,
Elijah M The problem only gets bigger.
Miss Fernandez The problem amplifies.
Elijah M At this point, it seeming like if you as an individual want to do something about climate change without becoming a face, you're going to have to think more radical than recycling. And all that within myself, it's a lot easier to think about climate change, when I just don't, I'm just like, well, there's nothing I can do about it. And then there's a lot of climate deniers. so how do you think apathy and denial play into how people react to the concept of climate?
Terry Gardiner I think, or my understanding is that, the terms you use apathy and denial are actual political terms in some ways that refer to what are often called coping mechanisms. So we all have different ways of engaging with things that either feel overwhelming or might call anxiety are just uncomfortable or unpleasant. Some people dive right in and try to get it all wrapped up and get it out of the way as quickly as possible. Others might do the opposite as in backing away, leaving it alone, I've heard that there are some students who actually procrastinate on writing papers, put it off a long, long time, instead of, you know, just I'm going to get it done like three days before the deadline. And those are all ways of really dealing with, not the paper, but the discomfort that comes with it. And similarly, with an issue like climate change, as we established, it can be so big, it feels overwhelming, that that overwhelm becomes uncomfortable. It feels hopeless, nobody wants to feel hopeless, as in there's this big thing, impending doom and I can't do anything about it. So when that becomes the idea, sometimes backing away from it allows the individual to feel more comfortable. And sometimes can create room and space for cognitive or mental rejuvenation. To get to a point where I can do something. Where it becomes problematic or challenging is if there's a backing away, but there's no opportunity to reflect or notice or rebuild, to get ready to engage again, especially if it's a situation that is going to require re-engagement. It's about pausing to think, what are we doing? What can we do? And what is the impact? And is that impact meaningful for us.
Mr. Kennedy Some of us are in denial, and even myself to some degree, like I can go weeks without really worrying about climate change, to be honest, but it's not good enough anymore, because we know better.
Miss Fernandez We do know better. And I think the Coronavirus is a really good example of how people react to these kinds of crises. Because you look at now with this new variant, and you see that people just don't care. I feel like that's climate change. Now. It's like, there is nothing we as the there's, they feel like there's nothing as an individual can do about it. So they're just gonna live their life and not care about it, and not even, you know, spare a second thought, for the future. You know, they're living in the present and what's happening in the present, and they're gonna live their best life right now. You know, YOLO, you only live once. So, you know... [laughs] that's what they're doing, though, and there's this, let's bury our head in the sand for our kids and our grandkids.
Elijah M Yeah, I think that's actually a really good comparison. Because as you were saying, your generation was super informed. And you guys got all of that you got to recycle, you got to compost. And then some of you guys started doing that. And you did that a bunch. But like the new Omicron variant came in and you're like, well, I'm already recycling.
Miss Fernandez Yeah, “I'm already vaccinated...”
Elijah M I can't change. I'm already doing it. So I don't have to change anything. It's not me anymore. Someone else needs to do something.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah. Yeah, there's a fatigue that sets in.
Elijah M And that fatigue is just so much. It's understandable why people kind of just give up, but your inaction, my inaction has consequences. And the younger generation are already judging us harshly.
Elijah M How does it feel when you hear people or corporations deny that climate change will and is having a major impact on our daily lives?
Isa I think that it's dumb, because frankly, at some point, money won't save you or maybe it won't save your great great grandchildren. And those people are selfish because they know them themselves are most likely fine because they're rich and privileged. And it makes me very upset. On occasion, I think it's ignorance, but at this point, it's like more or less willful ignorance, because it's very easy, especially in North America. It's very hard not to know some things about climate change and to have access to resources that prove it. I don't have enough experience internationally, talking to people about this. That said, I mean, like, I have family that lives in rural Argentina with like, not super developed areas. And they understand it from not having a million laptops everywhere and just being able to like be like, oh, something's going on with our climate. So I feel like we can all figure it out and it is willful ignorance or selfishness at this point, neither of which I like.
Adrian I think they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and a [expletive] because
Isa I think you could say that in more polite language.
Adrian I disagree. No, because when you have that much money and you don't have to care about it, like you don't and you lie about it, because you know, listen, people who have a lot of money, they know that they're very influential, they know whatever they say the press will eat that shit right up. And they don't have to care about the climate, they have their money to build igloos and bomb shelters, they don't have to care about what happens in the rest of the world. So they choose not to,
Isa And this is why we need more wealth redistribution.
Adrian Communism, exactly [laughing]
Isa Like, I'm not going to call myself a communist.
Elijah M No...
Isa But I'm not gonna say I disagree with every aspect.
Elijah M I just like calling me this because it gets the point across enough of it.
Adrian To some degree, you can't like you can't entirely blame them. Like it was kind of partially, you know, you grew up with a lot of money you grew up, never [shushs an interruption] You grew up, never having to worry about anything, you grew up not being a victim of racism, or sexism or homophobia, you have like literally no struggles at all. There's going to be no development of your empathy for others at all. There's going to be no compassion.
Isa I disagree on that. But you know, that's
Adrian I'm not saying they can't be blamed, they should be blamed, and their feet should be shot. But still, you know, they never, they never had to struggle with anything in their lives. Why would they? How can they conceptualize the fact that they have to struggle now.
Isa So okay, but by that definition, I mean, there are plenty of women who don't believe in climate change and are just rich, they've probably experienced sexism at some point in their life. People who have at least one marginalized identity...
Adrian There is a degree of never having to worry about anything ever. And now not being able to conceptualize that you have something to worry about. It's like it's just a little psychology thing. Now I'm not saying that. It's totally not their fault. Yeah, and I'm not saying that it's totally not their fault, it is totally their fault. Because while maybe they can't really grasp the idea that oh, I have something to worry about that I can't just buy my way out of. At the same time, they do have literally everybody else on the planet, telling them that there's a problem that they need to address. And they're like [raspberry sound] NO
Elijah M But now we stop beating around the bush, the world is slowly ending. Have you actually come to terms with that?
Elijah M How do you feel about the impending end of the world
Adrian Not going to be here for it.
Isa Not great... ya, I'm not loving it. I would really like if we could get some government people to do some more things. I think our law should be waste stricter. That's what my law project was about a couple years ago. I think there should be so many laws. And I think people think that we can fight climate change effectively in ways that are easy on our lifestyles. And I think that we all need to get uncomfortable because we're not going to stop climate change or make much progress unless we are it's not going to be easy. It's not going to be fun, but it still has to happen.
Adrian I don't care.
Elijah M You don't care...You don't care about the end of the world?
Adrian Because I'm not gonna be here for it. I do care. Listen, I will not disagree. I do care about the fact that in 30 years from now, I would like to be able to sit outside during the summer and the winter, but I don't care about the world ending. I'm not going to be around.
Adrian I'm also not going to have kids so my kids are not going to be around
Isa I'm not gonna have kids either...
Adrian But nobody related to me is gonna be around this is everyone else's problem, not mine.
Elijah M Reaaaalllly....
Isa That is how we got here. Every past generation said that.
Adrian No, no, no, no ,no, no, I care about what will happen to me. I care about in 20 years from now, it's gonna be too hot to even go outside during the summer, I care about that. I don't want that. But like the world will end, whether it ends for climate change, or whether it ends from spiraling into the sun, it will end.
Isa 3 billion years versus like a couple
Adrian Hey, maybe it'll end just like that. Maybe we'll get hit by with like a big comet.
Isa Very unlikely, though. And this is predictable, and likely, if we don't do anything. That's the major difference.
Adrian Hmm. I guess you're right. I'm still not gonna be here for it. So I care about my potential of death from climate change. I don't care about the potential of deaths from climate change in 300 years, well, I do care, but I don't care that much. I'm not going to be alive in 300 years, I think,
Elijah M I think like that. And it's not necessarily turn the lights off. And it's not there. But it's more like, it's a lot. So it's a lot easier to deal with it. If I don't think about it constantly.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah, sure. Sure.
Elijah M You make jokes about it. It's basically like a trauma point. And you're looking at it and you're like yeee the world is ending. That's terrifying. So what if I make a joke about it? And be like, haha, Pompeii 2? [laughing]
Mr. Kennedy Yeah, for sure. I think there's a lot of human psychology that goes on with these types of global problems, these existential threats to humanity. How I mean, imagine if we actually gave it as much attention as it deserves on a day to day basis, we'd be curled up in the fetal position. Yeah, every day, like whether we're worried about those biases and it's no longer an excuse. Because if we don't, as we said, our grandkids or your kids are, are going to suffer, and there's people already starting to suffer. So I guess I don't, I don't think it's acceptable anymore. Even though I understand why people are in denial. And even myself, to some degree, like I can go weeks without really worrying about climate change, to be honest, but it's not good enough anymore, because we know better.
Miss Fernandez We do know better. And I think the Coronavirus is a really good example of how people react to these kinds of crises. Because you look at now with this new variant, and you see that people just don't care. I feel like that's climate change. Now. Yeah, it's like, there is nothing we as the there's, they feel like there's nothing as dumb as the individual can do about it. So they're just gonna live their life and not care about it, and not even, you know, spare a second thought, for the future. You know, they're living in the present and what's happening in the present, and they're gonna live their best life right now. You know, YOLO, you only live once. So, you know, if that's what they're doing, though. And there's this, let's bury our head in the sand for our kids and our grandkids.
Elijah M Yeah, I think that's actually a really good comparison. Because as you were saying, your generation was super informed. And you guys got all of that you got to recycle. He got to compost. And then some of you guys started doing that. And you did that a bunch. But like the new Omicron variant came in and you're like, well, I'm already recycling.
Miss Fernandez Yeah, I’m already vaccinated…
Elijah M I can't. I'm already doing it. So I don't have to change anything. It's not me anymore. Someone else needs to do something.
Mr. Kennedy Yeah. Yeah, there's a fatigue that sets in, it becomes politicized. And yeah, and that's an interesting comparison there too, between vaccinations and climate change. These big issues become politicized. And then that just gridlocks any sort of change, because now you got to pick a team. And each team will look at data and that data just supports their pre-existing conclusions.
Miss Fernandez They're looking at the data that supports their decision as opposed to...
Mr. Kennedy It's the same and they just interpret it differently. So here we are, really, we just can't get our act together.
Elijah M Global climate as we just discussed, it's a lot. It's, it's a lot. How do you think that people are feeling anxious about the climate and its effects and our impending doom should deal with that. How can I feel less anxious?
Terry Gardiner Well, you know, just saying impending doom already invites anxiety into the room. And so even the way we start to think about and talk about something that we're not sure about can shift and change the way we conceive it and the way we experience it. So, you know, instead of thinking about impending doom, are there ways to even consider the possibility of shift and change over time. We know that shifts and changes are going to happen, because they've happened through the history of this planet. So that is inevitable, we are going to have shifts and changes right now. We just don't know what they're going to be. One of the things that I think the climate change conversation has done is focused in many ways on the negative. And of course, like, there are very serious issues to pay attention to having some awareness is really important. But I'm not sure that it all has to be framed. 100% is negative. Are there ways to pay attention mindfully to notice without judgment, that shifts or changes are coming? And with curiosity, wonder, what might be the impact of those changes? What are the ways that we might be able to anticipate or be present with or lean into some of those changes, and there may be some that are catastrophic. But catastrophic global change, or even local change has happened throughout the history of this planet. I myself grew up on an island in the Caribbean, an island that is a volcanic island and is known to be a volcanic island. In the 1990s, the volcano there, erupted after more than 100 years of being dormant, and about a third of the island was covered and decimated. The house that I grew up in was literally, over time, covered in ash that no longer exists. So if I were to go back to the spot that was like my family home, and I would walk in the ground, and it's kind of like Pompeii, it's somewhere underneath the ash, but it's just not visible anymore. And I offer that as an experience that big shifts and changes that you don't anticipate fully, can happen. But I grew up on an island where everybody knew there was a volcano that erupted every couple of decades, maybe 100 years. But it was easy to put it off, not think about it when it wasn't happening today, when it didn't happen yesterday when it had receded from memory.
Elijah M Okay, so like, think about current effects, and be here for the journey, not just focusing on the ending.
Terry Gardiner Well, that's what I would invite, is that when we focus on today, and being here today, it doesn't mean that we ignore tomorrow, but we're paying attention to the today. Because ultimately, the past we can't change, it's already gone. The future. We're not there yet. But in the focusing on the future, we actually miss out the opportunity to be present in the today, which actually has the potential of shaping the future. But where we can actually take action is only today. In this moment.
Elijah M You better not have come to terms with that. Because there are still things we can do. I'd resigned myself to that fate, but I refuse to give up anymore. Human beings are obsessed with the idea that one single person can do one single thing and save the world. But that isn't the way the world works. You may not be able to single-handedly stop climate change, but I swear to my bones, every impact is worth it. Because even planting a tree is changing the world.
Elijah M It's Eli, I've been the guy talking to you and all the fills I'm the one who just told you to plant the tree. And I'm doing my thank yous now because I have a lot of people that I would like to thank for helping me get this podcast done. First, I would like to thank Danielle and Day from Hart House, because they were my co-op supervisors. And I wouldn't have got it done without them. And I want to thank the rest of the Hart House Podcasters team cuz I relied on them a little bit, and I couldn't have got it done without them. Next, I want to thank some of my interviewees, Mr. Kennedy and Miss Fernandez, who are in the teacher part. I have Isabel, Adrian and Ms. Sabetti, who were in the student portion of the interview. And I have Terry Gardiner, who was in the therapist part of the interview, I specifically want to thank him for being super cool and upbeat. Because I had a lot of super depressing questions. But he was always optimistic the whole time. Next, I want to thank my sister Naya, for throwing my own advice back in my face, to just do what I want to do. I wasn't sure what I wanted to pick for my co-op, and she was like, you sound interested in the podcast, go do that. Good to know my advice is always amazing. And finally, I want to thank me because I'm awesome. No, I want to thank you the listener, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. I didn't think it was going to be done. And here we are. It exists. So, I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, even though I sounded a little mad, I love you. Eli out.
Day Many thanks to Elijah for making this episode and giving us a view into his world. He wrote, produced, interviewed, edited, and made all the music. Kudos to you, Elijah. Thanks to Danielle DiNunzio for working with me to support his co-op at Hart House. Thanks to the Hart House Student Podcasters as well as to Shaela McCracken and Nick Lloyd-Kuzik for their editing and sound support. You can listen to Stories from the Hart anywhere you get your podcasts. This is Day, signing off. Thanks for listening.